302V8 into a 1935 Ford

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RockinKees
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302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by RockinKees »

Hi there!

We are planning to do a 302 sbf in a 1935 Ford.
The enginebay is a bit small, so we want to get all info how to get this engine into the enginebay, preferably without cutting up the firewall. (At some point there is a hopped up flattie going in, but that a whole different story.)
As we had the same question asked on a FB group for this Ford, we were told the Australians have all the info to do this.
You have a lot of 302 swaps into these fords.

So the question is, what do we do to get this to work?
Already heard a Bronco sump with oilpump, but which year??
Also somebody said an external oliefilter.
The engine that we have is a 1979 302 V8
Please help us with tips, pictures and all other info.

As we live in the Netherlands, the info about this swap overhere is absolutely zero :(

Thanks for all the help!
Greetz,

Kees
1957 Chevy 210 Wagon
1959 Chevrolet Apache Fleetside V8, sold

F*ck Stock, Kustomize!!
37fordpu
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by 37fordpu »

I don't know about 35 passenger car but 35-37 pickup needs the firewall recessed .The later EFI 5.0 engines with serpentine belt system are shorter due to a shorter waterpump .Note that these pumps are reverse rotation and can't be used on earlier 302 without changing the timing cover.
Oldcol
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by Oldcol »

I reckon that firewall will need a haircut. These are a long engine and the shape doesn't lend itself well to the early engine compartment. You might gain some inches if you shorten the water pump or change it for some other short pump , we used to use 6 cyl Holden pump on a flat plate to block off the big hole from the Ford pump, and use a Holden top pulley to line it up with the lower pulley, but there's probably not many of them where you are :lol: . You may sneak a short oil filter on there,depending on how you mount the engine, and there is or was a angled oil pump adapter available to make thing easier too, but I haven't seen or heard of them for a while. There are a number of good reasons why Chevy swaps are more popular than Fords, you'll find them out as you go I suspect :lol: .....
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Col....

"Works" comes before "looks good", cos "looks good" changes, and "works" works!
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32V8
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by 32V8 »

Col has a point there.
I built a 40 Ford Coupe and planned on a SBF. The front driven oil pump creates a problem straight away. A Bronco sump is no answer, its the oil pump that is the problem.
I went through all this and I was 100% adamant that the firewall would not be cut. To get the engine height down you have to cut the firewall to move the engine back to clear the steering, so, chop, chop on Henrys beautiful steel. To not cut the firewall you will need to place the engine high and which then creates a steep drive line angle.
I have seen SBFs in 35/40 Fords but all have had the firewall chopped and the one I saw non chopped was awful, nearly made me weep.
So its chop chop or a little Mouse motor. They fit like a glove, no cutting and that little SBC looks like Henry put it there.
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FRANK BASILE
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by FRANK BASILE »

Pretty much explained by previous contributors. Another plus for the small block Chev. You can use a front saddle plate horse shoe shaped under the timing case bolted to the front of the block with the available threaded holes, then a welded on bracket either side lets you use the original cross member 35 Ford engine mounts , or if you choose the Jaguar or Ford Cortina donut mounts.
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Shabby T
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by Shabby T »

All very good reasons to use a SBC, but I went against the norm and put a Ford in a Ford the way it should be :D :D

A 1979 SBF would be a Cleveland anyway wouldn't it??

Bigger and heavier than a Windsor!!
Cheers,
Terry

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monte
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by monte »

Shabby T wrote:All very good reasons to use a SBC, but I went against the norm and put a Ford in a Ford the way it should be :D :D

A 1979 SBF would be a Cleveland anyway wouldn't it??

Bigger and heavier than a Windsor!!
And more powerful mate ,Cant beat a Ford in a Ford ,Why cant they run an external water pump if they are a bit stuffed for room and fit the smaller Oil filter ,cut a bit out of the the sump where the drag link hits the sump and fill it in again ,then at least the dizzy is at the right end to work on it instead of being hard up on the firewall ,what a stupid place to fit a Dizzy anyway ,probably did it cause it was cheaper to do like that ,most chev shit is like that cheap :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by Oldcol »

....can't argue with someone who is obsessed with brand names,sensible choice doesn't seem to come into it....what's more important?....original mint Ford steel body ...or a blue engine which manages to hit just about everything in a post '35 engine compartment. Sorry,I'll take the body thanks .
...and it isn't just the firewall that cops it, because the oil pump is up there where the front crossmember lives, and the engine needs to go back into the firewall, that means the trans goes back with it, so X member alterations are then needed which usually compromises the structural integrity of the frame.... and depending on who does it and what they know, the function of the X member is largely misunderstood if not totally ignored by many people. So...trans and engine are set back, Xmember is probably a bit messed up....floor will be necessarily altered to suit, as will the trans tunnel and often the pedal area is compromised too, due to the firewall cutback, meaning you end up with a fairly large trans tunnel around the bellhousing area and and there's already not a whole lot of spare room there for asst'd feet and pedals before you plant and engine and trans there....so it's not looking so cool now to have a blue engine is it. Oddly enough they do fit pretty well in a 33/34, but in 35 and up , they are just not a smart choice. Not saying it can't be done, just there is better options.
...and for the record, I'm not anti Ford...I've got a bunch of them in different cars.... but way back in the dark ages, I recognised that a good engine swap was one that was simple and clean , and non destructive....so you use an engine that suits the area you have to work with,it's as simple as that.
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Col....

"Works" comes before "looks good", cos "looks good" changes, and "works" works!
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by monte »

I knew I would get a bite from the old Master himself :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ,Col that ute is just a beautiful thing ,you must be very happy to see it finished ,anybody would be proud to own that :D :D :D :D
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FRANK BASILE
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by FRANK BASILE »

Good summary Col. Whenever I got asked by casual observers why I used a Chev engine in a particular Ford. Simple answer. "Ease of fit" .
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Oldcol
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by Oldcol »

....I don't think there's much to choose from one to the other as far as is one better or worse, all do the job they were designed to do and do it well....but..a couple of Ford things really are a bit stupid. On Windsors that cast alloy timing cover/water pump housing that corrodes away all the time is a real letdown, similarly the tin plate that separates the back of the water pump and the inside of the crankcase on a Clevo is also a POS idea. One pinhole in that and you've got water in the oil and all the problems that go with it....and on both they have pissy little pressed tin water hose fittings that hammer into the block,, not even the quality and permanence of a threaded fitting. All these things seem shortsighted to me, the sort of cheapo shit that bean counters would promote. That's the only thing about them that I don't like.....oyh, and the way they put the Clevo dissy in a bit of a recess beside the thermo housing , where it gets water buildup and freezes the dissy into the block. That's a pain in the bum too. :lol:
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Col....

"Works" comes before "looks good", cos "looks good" changes, and "works" works!
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FRANK BASILE
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by FRANK BASILE »

Had a 289W in the 66 Mustang Convertible with that frozen distributor issue Col. I had to smash it out, it was galvanised to the block :shock:. And as for pissy fittings. Holden V6 used a plastic heater hose fitting on the front of the block,we had one fracture& snap off sitting at traffic lights with steam going everywhere. Got RACV towed home. Went to Bursons for a replacement. Guess what? . It is brass ,something the factory should have fitted in the first place :roll:
Last edited by FRANK BASILE on Wed May 20, 2020 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rx4ord
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by rx4ord »

Is galvanised another word for rust Frank?

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RockinKees
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by RockinKees »

Unfortunately I didn’t get any mail or so of the reactions, so sorry for my late reaction.

Today we had a small test fit in the car with the 302.
It fits.
But it is a very tight fit, the only problem we have is indeed where to put the radiator. We still can a few centimeters to the back, and with a short waterpump we should gain some 7 cm max.
The oilpump is a bit high, but for the total hight of the block, this is no problem, it all fits under the bonnet.

So, if you have a lead on a short waterpump and pulleys, that would be great!
We still don’t want to cut the firewall....

What I don’t understand is a SBC, they are not much shorter than this 302, why is it easier then? Only because of the better oilpanshape?

How do I put pictures inhere from my computer?
Greetz,

Kees
1957 Chevy 210 Wagon
1959 Chevrolet Apache Fleetside V8, sold

F*ck Stock, Kustomize!!
37fordpu
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Re: 302V8 into a 1935 Ford

Post by 37fordpu »

Summit racing have one listed

Part Number: FMS-M-8501-E351S
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