Look awesome Dad-bud.
Building one from scratch, now that's commitment !
Cheers, Mudgy
Dad-bud builds a rod
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Mudgy
- Old Hand
- Posts: 3249
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:36 am
- Location: Gosford, NSW
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Good Judgement comes from experience....experience comes from bad judgement.
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Thanks guys.
While looking for distractions while I had suffered from FOMU (Fear of Mucking Up), I'd previously made a hammerform to use with shaping the rear inner wheel wells and figured it didn't matter when I did them. It would also help me a little bit to get more of a feel for metal shaping and improve my metalworking skills so I decided that while I was unmotivated following our holiday, that it would be some low-hanging fruit I'd pluck.
So, it was easy to cut out a couple of blanks and set one of them up. Lots of clamps and packers to hold the sheet in place then beat the edge over.
Then straighten out the puckers producing something like this:
Next, hit it with the shrinker to remove the curve and make it fit inside the radius of the inner wheel well frame.
By now, I figured I was going in the right direction. Still some work to do though.
While looking for distractions while I had suffered from FOMU (Fear of Mucking Up), I'd previously made a hammerform to use with shaping the rear inner wheel wells and figured it didn't matter when I did them. It would also help me a little bit to get more of a feel for metal shaping and improve my metalworking skills so I decided that while I was unmotivated following our holiday, that it would be some low-hanging fruit I'd pluck.
So, it was easy to cut out a couple of blanks and set one of them up. Lots of clamps and packers to hold the sheet in place then beat the edge over.
Then straighten out the puckers producing something like this:
Next, hit it with the shrinker to remove the curve and make it fit inside the radius of the inner wheel well frame.
By now, I figured I was going in the right direction. Still some work to do though.
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Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Next, cut out a relief for the rear axle to set up into while shaping the back of the wheel well. I folded a small edge along the bottom towards the centre of the car - away from the wheel. I figured the folded edge would provide a stiffener to the bottom edge which would help keep it straight as well as eliminate a sharp edge along the bottom.
Next, I decided I'd add some Model A style beads. 32's have a scalloped shape to their inner rear fender wells but I thought that would be too difficult to make, Model A's on the other hand have beads radiating out from the centre. I used the same approach I had taken in beating beads into the firewall - use a router to cut a relief in the hammerform that I would beat the metal down into. Not perfect but it's no show car so....................
When these were finished, they were tek screwed up to the frame and look pretty good.
Next, I decided I'd add some Model A style beads. 32's have a scalloped shape to their inner rear fender wells but I thought that would be too difficult to make, Model A's on the other hand have beads radiating out from the centre. I used the same approach I had taken in beating beads into the firewall - use a router to cut a relief in the hammerform that I would beat the metal down into. Not perfect but it's no show car so....................
When these were finished, they were tek screwed up to the frame and look pretty good.
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Last edited by Dad-bud on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Another piece of scrap allowed me to shape up the piece that fills in behind the cockpit and in front of the bootlid opening.
I thought this was going to be quite simple and straightforward.
Well it kicked my arse.
Folding the rear edge was fairly simple - bend it then use the shrinker to radius it to suit. That was sorted quickly and easily.
Next, I had to produce another bend upwards but it also had to follow a radius to match the gently curved rear edge of the cockpit. I used a brick chisel which I rounded the edge of so it wouldn't tear the metal. I lay the metal on an old folded up bed cover which would cushion the blows, allowing me to impart the folding along my marked line.
Hitting it with many blows, working along the line pushed the metal down and so, I needed to stretch the top which would be rolled over the cockpit rear. Lots of work with the stretcher finally got it to sit where it should but then I needed to shrink most of what I had just stretched as the inner edge of the tube at the rear of the cockpit is shorter than the outer edge.
That's a lot of words but the picture doesn't suggest any of them.
It looks like it kinda fits.
Well, it kinda does but it took heaps and heaps of work to end up a poor fit. I used shiploads of tek screws just to pull it into some kind of shape. It needs more work - hopefully, I will find some talent somewhere and work out how to do it. Some have suggested just cutting it and welding it but I think there must be a solution with hitting it properly. Maybe I'll work it out.
My fear was that if I couldn't find a solution to this, how would I go with the door tops and don't even think about the cowl top.
I thought this was going to be quite simple and straightforward.
Well it kicked my arse.
Folding the rear edge was fairly simple - bend it then use the shrinker to radius it to suit. That was sorted quickly and easily.
Next, I had to produce another bend upwards but it also had to follow a radius to match the gently curved rear edge of the cockpit. I used a brick chisel which I rounded the edge of so it wouldn't tear the metal. I lay the metal on an old folded up bed cover which would cushion the blows, allowing me to impart the folding along my marked line.
Hitting it with many blows, working along the line pushed the metal down and so, I needed to stretch the top which would be rolled over the cockpit rear. Lots of work with the stretcher finally got it to sit where it should but then I needed to shrink most of what I had just stretched as the inner edge of the tube at the rear of the cockpit is shorter than the outer edge.
That's a lot of words but the picture doesn't suggest any of them.
It looks like it kinda fits.
Well, it kinda does but it took heaps and heaps of work to end up a poor fit. I used shiploads of tek screws just to pull it into some kind of shape. It needs more work - hopefully, I will find some talent somewhere and work out how to do it. Some have suggested just cutting it and welding it but I think there must be a solution with hitting it properly. Maybe I'll work it out.
My fear was that if I couldn't find a solution to this, how would I go with the door tops and don't even think about the cowl top.
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Perth, WA
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SimonG
- Posts: 499
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:56 pm
- Location: Cairns, Nth Queensland
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
You are doing an amazing job with lots of progress, so well done.
Have you thought about making small pie cuts in the section that is inside the cockpit, if that makes sense to help it bend a little easier?
Have you thought about making small pie cuts in the section that is inside the cockpit, if that makes sense to help it bend a little easier?
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Hey Simon,SimonG wrote:You are doing an amazing job with lots of progress, so well done.
Have you thought about making small pie cuts in the section that is inside the cockpit, if that makes sense to help it bend a little easier?
That's the suggestion that's been made by some friends.
It's going to be my fail-safe solution when any other option is exhausted.
It's kinda dumb on my part, I know - the sections of panel will be welded to the frame underneath anyway but I'd like to try shaping the sheetmetal first.
Thanks for putting the thought into it though.
Cheers.
Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
When I got my 'roadster kit', I bought 5 sheets of 1.0 thick metal for the body which I still think will be about right. To be able to get 5 sheets to make the body, I'm going to need to be cautious and plan which parts get cut and in what order. (Of course, if I need more, it's just sheetmetal and only about $40-50 a sheet, so let's not fret too much).
Anyway, the logic is to cut out large pieces and then use up what's left to make the smaller pieces.
So, the cowl top is not very wide from front to back but, allowing enough lap over the cowl sides is longish from side to side.
The experts all talk about flexible patterns, so I bought a roll of floor protection board which I thought would be flexible enough to use.
I duly cut out a piece of that to use as my pattern.
Turns out it's not as flexible as I might have liked but could still be used to lay over the sheet to mark out the cowl top.
I'd planned to use the English Wheel to create the rolls from the top down the sides. It turned out that it was easier to just push and roll the metal by hand to get the shape.
It fits quite well along the sides. The front will be trimmed back after bead rolling a stepdown and bead to match the cowl sides, then when it's tek screwed into position, it'll be time to start dressing the back down over and around the tube that forms the front of the cockpit.
FOMU has stopped me so far.
Anyway, the logic is to cut out large pieces and then use up what's left to make the smaller pieces.
So, the cowl top is not very wide from front to back but, allowing enough lap over the cowl sides is longish from side to side.
The experts all talk about flexible patterns, so I bought a roll of floor protection board which I thought would be flexible enough to use.
I duly cut out a piece of that to use as my pattern.
Turns out it's not as flexible as I might have liked but could still be used to lay over the sheet to mark out the cowl top.
I'd planned to use the English Wheel to create the rolls from the top down the sides. It turned out that it was easier to just push and roll the metal by hand to get the shape.
It fits quite well along the sides. The front will be trimmed back after bead rolling a stepdown and bead to match the cowl sides, then when it's tek screwed into position, it'll be time to start dressing the back down over and around the tube that forms the front of the cockpit.
FOMU has stopped me so far.
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Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Dashboard next.
Cut the blank.
You can see the folded up bed cover that I use as a 'beating bag' under the blank. Again, I used a brick chisel tapping it along the marked line to fold up a small lip along the top rather than just a raw cut along the top of the dash. The sides were bent up to fit into the dash frame for the same reason.
Next was to fold the bottom edge over the shaped frame of the dash. I used the frame as its own hammerform - making sure that as I tapped the edge over that it was properly supported and held down so as not to change its shape to ensure it would go back in as previous.
You can also see my collection of angle grinders at the bottom of the pic - I saw a similar thing on someone else's build thread years ago and thought it was a good idea. A number of cheaper angle grinders means you don't need to change blades and attachments every time you want to use a grinder. It also provides plenty of back-ups if one dies prematurely. The cheaper Bunnings AEG grinders have proven themselves to be the 'sweet spot' of low cost, enough grunt and power to do whatever you might want. Anyway, if you can afford a few $70 grinders and have somewhere to store them, my tip is have a handful of grinders (or whatever the collective noun is to describe a collection).
Cheers.
Cut the blank.
You can see the folded up bed cover that I use as a 'beating bag' under the blank. Again, I used a brick chisel tapping it along the marked line to fold up a small lip along the top rather than just a raw cut along the top of the dash. The sides were bent up to fit into the dash frame for the same reason.
Next was to fold the bottom edge over the shaped frame of the dash. I used the frame as its own hammerform - making sure that as I tapped the edge over that it was properly supported and held down so as not to change its shape to ensure it would go back in as previous.
You can also see my collection of angle grinders at the bottom of the pic - I saw a similar thing on someone else's build thread years ago and thought it was a good idea. A number of cheaper angle grinders means you don't need to change blades and attachments every time you want to use a grinder. It also provides plenty of back-ups if one dies prematurely. The cheaper Bunnings AEG grinders have proven themselves to be the 'sweet spot' of low cost, enough grunt and power to do whatever you might want. Anyway, if you can afford a few $70 grinders and have somewhere to store them, my tip is have a handful of grinders (or whatever the collective noun is to describe a collection).
Cheers.
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Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
The dashboard proved very difficult to work into the inner corners next to the centre. You can see some puckering which spoils the smooth transition at those corners. At this stage, I'm going to leave it for now - I want the dashboard sheet to be removable for now - I can fix or adjust it later when I do the final prep for paint.
It is finished enough to see what it looks like when fitted up with instruments and glovebox lid and the steering wheel in place.
You may or may not be able to see the amount of shape in the tube above the dash - it is going to make the piece behind the seat look like a piece of cake. I might have to get a bit creative there. I don't have an answer yet - might need a whole lot of beers to brainstorm it.
It is finished enough to see what it looks like when fitted up with instruments and glovebox lid and the steering wheel in place.
You may or may not be able to see the amount of shape in the tube above the dash - it is going to make the piece behind the seat look like a piece of cake. I might have to get a bit creative there. I don't have an answer yet - might need a whole lot of beers to brainstorm it.
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Perth, WA
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Mudgy
- Old Hand
- Posts: 3249
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:36 am
- Location: Gosford, NSW
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Mate, that's magic.
I'm Inspired by what you've achieved.
Cheers, Mudgy
I'm Inspired by what you've achieved.
Cheers, Mudgy
Good Judgement comes from experience....experience comes from bad judgement.
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
I'd been putting off trying to skin the doors - waiting to start a full sheet after using up the offcuts on smaller stuff.
Marking out a pattern, no problem. Cutting it, same thing. Then over to the English Wheel to put some shape into it.
Running the sheet through the wheel from corner to corner and then at 90 degs from other corner to corner, I tried using the lowest crown anvil I had (other than the flat one). I thought I was using a low pressure setting but within a few passes, it had assume plenty of shape and had some wheeling marks in it. The few times I've used an E-wheel, you typically use it to help smooth the metal but my worry was running the sheet through the wheel more would add more shape rather than smoothing, so a few wheel marks it is - hopefully I can hide them with just some high-build filler rather than using a 44 gallon drum of bog.
After initial shaping of the sheet, I folded the bottom and used the shrinker to shape the fold to match the radius of the door bottom. I screwed the sheet to the frame using tek screws.
Then I folded up the sides using the door frame to tap the sides over. As a fold along a straight line produces a straight fold, I needed to tune the sides up with the shrinker to get them to match the shape of the leading and trailing edges of the door frame.
Having the sides folded up, all I had to do was roll the top over the tube forming the door top - easy, huh?
Not so much. Again, trying to roll a sheet over a radiused tube meant a different length along the surface on the inside compared to the outside. This was compounded by trying to roll the lower portion of the top of the door gently over. You can see the gap below the top tube in the upper photo which is causing me the problem.
I cut some 2.0 sheet and shaped it to match the radius in two directions then welded it to the top door tube. This is meant to hold the skin out and allow it to roll onto the top of the top door tube. It's not pretty but will be hidden by the skin so I didn't spend too much time prettying it up.
This solution helped, but...........
Marking out a pattern, no problem. Cutting it, same thing. Then over to the English Wheel to put some shape into it.
Running the sheet through the wheel from corner to corner and then at 90 degs from other corner to corner, I tried using the lowest crown anvil I had (other than the flat one). I thought I was using a low pressure setting but within a few passes, it had assume plenty of shape and had some wheeling marks in it. The few times I've used an E-wheel, you typically use it to help smooth the metal but my worry was running the sheet through the wheel more would add more shape rather than smoothing, so a few wheel marks it is - hopefully I can hide them with just some high-build filler rather than using a 44 gallon drum of bog.
After initial shaping of the sheet, I folded the bottom and used the shrinker to shape the fold to match the radius of the door bottom. I screwed the sheet to the frame using tek screws.
Then I folded up the sides using the door frame to tap the sides over. As a fold along a straight line produces a straight fold, I needed to tune the sides up with the shrinker to get them to match the shape of the leading and trailing edges of the door frame.
Having the sides folded up, all I had to do was roll the top over the tube forming the door top - easy, huh?
Not so much. Again, trying to roll a sheet over a radiused tube meant a different length along the surface on the inside compared to the outside. This was compounded by trying to roll the lower portion of the top of the door gently over. You can see the gap below the top tube in the upper photo which is causing me the problem.
I cut some 2.0 sheet and shaped it to match the radius in two directions then welded it to the top door tube. This is meant to hold the skin out and allow it to roll onto the top of the top door tube. It's not pretty but will be hidden by the skin so I didn't spend too much time prettying it up.
This solution helped, but...........
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Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
I kept coming back to the skin, trying to work out how to shrink and stretch the bit of the top of the door skin to let me dress it over the top while still holding its shape generally.
I tried the shrinker as well as applying some heat to try heat shrinking it.
I kept moving in the right direction but wasn't sure when to say I had got close enough or whether to just half-arse it and screw the skin to the frame. I packed the door and skin into my car and drove down to see Clive at Hammerworks. I figured that he'd be able to look at what I'd done and work out whether it was just rubbish or how to fix it. I showed him what was troubling me and he pulled out a hammer and dolly and did a couple of taps and I think he decided it was going to take a heap of work to get prefect so he declared it was probably about as close as it was going to get. He agreed that I should use my teks to fit the skin to the frame and use the holes created later to plug weld the skin to the frame.
I was there for around 10 minutes including all the foreplay, I mean chat, so I guess I wasn't really all that far off anyway.
Clive said to dress down the top edge some more after I'd screwed it on and I should be pretty close to what I was looking for.
So, back to my workshop and fit the skin to the frame. I used lots of clamps - I wasn't sure how many I needed so I used what I thought was enough.
With plenty of tapping and dressing I was able to get the skin to fit pretty close.
Here it is all screwed on.
I tried the shrinker as well as applying some heat to try heat shrinking it.
I kept moving in the right direction but wasn't sure when to say I had got close enough or whether to just half-arse it and screw the skin to the frame. I packed the door and skin into my car and drove down to see Clive at Hammerworks. I figured that he'd be able to look at what I'd done and work out whether it was just rubbish or how to fix it. I showed him what was troubling me and he pulled out a hammer and dolly and did a couple of taps and I think he decided it was going to take a heap of work to get prefect so he declared it was probably about as close as it was going to get. He agreed that I should use my teks to fit the skin to the frame and use the holes created later to plug weld the skin to the frame.
I was there for around 10 minutes including all the foreplay, I mean chat, so I guess I wasn't really all that far off anyway.
Clive said to dress down the top edge some more after I'd screwed it on and I should be pretty close to what I was looking for.
So, back to my workshop and fit the skin to the frame. I used lots of clamps - I wasn't sure how many I needed so I used what I thought was enough.
With plenty of tapping and dressing I was able to get the skin to fit pretty close.
Here it is all screwed on.
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Perth, WA
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
So, time to test fit the door into the opening.
This was a moment of trepidation. I'd been knocking the skin over the frame a fair bit so I was worried that the frame might have moved around a bit - any change of shape would mean disaster.
(Drum roll)
WFM, it fit!
It's not that pretty but it opens and closes like a door and it held its shape.
Inside look.
OK, so that pretty much brings me up to date. I'm working on the driver's door skin now and if there is anything worth posting, I'll show you.
If there's anything I've missed and you want to see, let me know and I'll try to grab a pic of it.
I'll try to post more regular updates - it's nearly 10 months since my last set of posts - sure, I was MIA for 3 months of that but I was waiting until I had something worthwhile completed before going again. Hopefully, I'll ha ve something worth posting again soon.
Thanks for taking the time to have a look.
This was a moment of trepidation. I'd been knocking the skin over the frame a fair bit so I was worried that the frame might have moved around a bit - any change of shape would mean disaster.
(Drum roll)
WFM, it fit!
It's not that pretty but it opens and closes like a door and it held its shape.
Inside look.
OK, so that pretty much brings me up to date. I'm working on the driver's door skin now and if there is anything worth posting, I'll show you.
If there's anything I've missed and you want to see, let me know and I'll try to grab a pic of it.
I'll try to post more regular updates - it's nearly 10 months since my last set of posts - sure, I was MIA for 3 months of that but I was waiting until I had something worthwhile completed before going again. Hopefully, I'll ha ve something worth posting again soon.
Thanks for taking the time to have a look.
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Perth, WA
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robtus
- Senior Member
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- Contact:
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Nice work, looks factory which is sad because most people will not realise how much effort you have put in.
I never make the same mistake twice, I do it 5 or 6 times just to be sure !!!
Making progress, https://www.muston.com/public_html/34%2 ... _Limo.html
Making progress, https://www.muston.com/public_html/34%2 ... _Limo.html
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Dad-bud
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:33 pm
- Location: Wangara, Perth, WA
Re: Dad-bud builds a rod
Thanks robtus.robtus wrote:Nice work, looks factory which is sad because most people will not realise how much effort you have put in.
If it's parked anywhere near another 'real roadster', whether real Henry steel, Chev, Dodge or fibreglass, it's going to look decidedly ordinary but I'm enjoying the process of building a car.
As I've said previously, I'm aiming for something that I won't be embarrassed to drive. If I don't like it, I'm not sure what I'd do with it - it's probably going to be too big for most people's tastes but that's all still a fair way off at this stage.
Cheers.
Perth, WA