250 into an XL Falcon

Cousin Slopoke · Post by **Cousin Slopoke** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:43 pm

Howdy all,

I've got some questions for early falcon owners on here. I am playing with my first project, an XL falcon delivery.

I'm currently installing a 250 and B/W 40. I have the 250 motor with the standard long water pump on it as well as a twin groove crankshaft pulley to run my a/c. Problem is, with all this on the front of the motor (let alone an engine fan), there is not enough room for the radiator in its standard position.

I am getting a new trans tunnel put in next month, as there is no room around the Borg Warner at the moment, and was going to move the engine back as far as possible at the same time. Currently there is about 2 inches of clearance between the back of the rocker cover and the firewall.

My problem is that I can only move the engine back about 3/4 inch on the engine mounts, and as the motor comes back, the sump starts hitting on the crossmember. Do I have the wrong engine mounts to get the motor as far back as possible? I'm using the standard XL (170ci) falcon engine mounts.

I have also been told by someone that you need spacers made to lift the engine and solve the sump clearance problem, but this will leave hardly any thread on the engine mounts. Is this correct?

So to cut a long story short, how has everyone else got their 250 motors in their early falcons without cutting it up too much? (Pictures would be good!)

And yes, I've thought about trying to find a 221 motor, (anyone want to sell me one

) but there a bit thin on the ground.

Cheers

chopppmyride · Post by **chopppmyride** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:44 pm

Keep the 250 . yes you do need to lift motor 15 mm , you can use your your XL engine mount weld on a peace of 5mm steel to top , draw a line thru bolt holes that go into block . then from centerline of each hole mark 15mm higher then drill 2 new holes . engine will then bolt in
Dont cut out your floor , you dont need to , where BW gearbox hits fire wall tap in with hammer , does have to be moved in much but you need trial fit motor to find out where tap fire walll in .
You need to have a gearbox mount adaptor .
Use XB up right radiator as this fits better than XY rad as XB is shorter.the radiator panel needs to have the raised section altered . Where the origional rad bolts to this needs to be flattened then trimed and new holes drilled to bolt in XB radiator. use standard XB rad hoses , they need to be shortened slightly.
You can use a floor shift or use a colloum shift from A XP that had a BW auto or I have used colloum from XR XT which work perfect.

Yes I have done this conversion about 50 times
Then when 250 is fitted you will need to change the diff ratio

But that little albert is a another story
For more details message or phone me 0410 384 861

chop_shop · Post by **chop_shop** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:35 pm

Then when 250 is fitted you will need to change the diff ratio

But that little albert is a another story

and an engineers report if the RW guy picks the 250 conversion !....

XL's have a smaller tunnel than the XP, but as mentioned your better of reworking whats there, if the hammer doesnt work get out the oxy

chopppmyride · Post by **chopppmyride** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:20 am

Oxy not needed , use hammer & dolly

Grazza · Post by **Grazza** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:05 am

chopppmyride wrote:Oxy not needed , use hammer & dolly

And if that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. Being serious there as well, as chop said, there is no need to be cutting anything up. I've done this twice now without problems. Either physical or emotionally (from the Rego Man

) Whole job should take no more than a slab - unless it is hot, or Andrew comes around to help!

Little Sport Coupe · Post by **Little Sport Coupe** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:23 am

Another alternative that I have used many times is to use XP chassis mounts, XR-W engine mounts and XR-W pressed upper mounts. These lift the motor high enough so that the sump clears the draglink. I also used a Cortina crossflow radiator, the tanks are in a more favorable location on the core which lets it sit further forward.
As others have pionted out, the transmission clearance problem is only above the bellhousing so some hammer work (big hammer) is all that is required in this area or if you really want to cut the tunnel, get the piece that you need from the top of an XP tunnel and trim to fit then weld it in. I did it this way the first time I did a pre XP swap.
A simple trans mount can be made using the trans crossmember from an XR-Y. Trim about 10mm of each end so that it will fit between the subframe and weld a piece of angle section to each sub rail so that the crossmember can bolt to it, most people wont know that its not factory fitted.
Hope this helps. Phill.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:18 pm

My old XP coupe ran spacers which from memory were seat belt washers to space the 250 up. I constantly broke engine mounts though (they were all second hand ones) with the torque of the 250. I had also fited an XL lower brace between the mounts and the sump rubbed on it. I eventually got sick of changing engine mounts and bought a set of XR mounts (NOS I think) from Lil Sport Coupe but then came across a smashed low mileage ZA Fairlane for the right price and swapped the 289 into the XP. It was a nicer fit than the 250! I reckon I still have those XR/T mounts in my shed!

Cousin Slopoke · Post by **Cousin Slopoke** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:35 pm

Thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated

I'll get down to the gym, and then get the big hammer out and start massaging the tunnel.

I think i'll try the XR mount method and see how that goes. Am trying to keep it look like a factory install as much as possible.

Dave: Excuse my ignorance, but is there any difference between the XL and the XP engine mounts. I would have thought they were the same (same front end, same shorter engines) I know the XP didn't have the crossbrace, did they do different engine mounts as well?

Lil Sport coupe: Did you manage to mount the engine fan between the radiator as well, or did you go an electric fan in front or behind the radiator. Have you tried it with the extra tooth lower pulley (power steer/AC pulley) which makes the fan that little bit further forward

Cheers

chopppmyride · Post by **chopppmyride** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:11 am

as in your 3rd photo , XK XL enging mounts have 2 nuts holding mount to support and XM XP have one nut , hope this helps

Little Sport Coupe · Post by **Little Sport Coupe** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:41 pm

The XP mounts are different to the XK-L but I don't remember which ones the XM used.

The XP rubber isolator and the upper engine mount are one piece.

The XR-W mounts whilst looking similar to the XP are two piece, the rubber isolator unbolts from the upper pressed engine mount.

The combined XR-W mount is taller than the early mount and as Dave suggested, I too have had to use a small spacer(approx 3mm) under the isolator but not on ever installation. The sump pressings may vary a little.

The cast lower mount that bolts to the side of the tower are different from XL to XP but they bolt in the same place.

Ford dropped the engine tube from the XP passenger cars because of the increase in subframe strength. the commercial XP's continued to use it so you will need to retain it.

A fan can be retained on the water pump but the pitch on the blades is limited and I have had one destroy a radiator under a panic stop, there must have been just enough flex in the rubber isolators to let the motor move forward. After this I fitted a front mount electric fan, If everything behind the grill is painted flattened black as per original then the fan is hidden fairly well.

The motors I have used the most for this conversion have been the XE-F alloy head crossflows which use the double lower pulley and the aircon lower pulley was a bolt on third pulley if the motor had power steering as well.

Phill.